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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 22, 2009 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I just recieved my Road Trips II/3. In spite of the dramatic improvement in sound quality for the cuts from Des Moines compared to the circulating Fink and Greg Hamilton sources, its total hack-job and a complete fucking joke!

Whatever soul and character these two dynamite performances have, is completely lost in the formating of this series. For example, the bonus disc is tracked 1, 2, 9 from Freedom Hall and 3-8 are from the State Fairgrounds. What the fuck?

And the packaging is lame as well. Again they saved a few cents with the cheapo cardboard which is once again too small to accomodate the discs. And the phalic lug on the "Wall of Sound" cover is cheezy!

I'm not surprised, though, I stopped buying T shirts from GDP a couple years ago because they were such junk!

What a shame that the folks making decisions dont have a clue. Don't worry, though, the next edition will probably be some dog shit show from the mid-80's. What a shame, what ever happened to the Download Series?

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 22, 2009 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I rec'd my copy on Saturday and while I'm not offended as some, it is lacking a fourth disc and the formatting is a bit peculiar...the quality is nice, they fixed a couple of issues at the end of the It's a Sin Jam> Stella Blue...but going in, we all know that Rhino is not for completists...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 22, 2009 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

That's a great point, considering what they left out of "Beyond Description;" supposedly a 'complete' box set of the post-Europe years...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 22, 2009 10:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

what'd they leave out studio wise which is what that set is about? On another note - who can possibly complain about the Jerry All Good Things Box? If that aint chock full plus the kitchen sink and a great bang for the buck what is?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 22, 2009 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Call me Earl, but I'm not sure I comprendo running off and throwing lotso pesos at something I've heard a hundred times and in a hundred different ways. It seems to me that there's only a couple ways to put lipstick on these pigs; First is the repackaging, which they have failed at. Second is dumping the dogs, but somehow maintaining the integrity of the setlist. Apparently the can't do that either. Finally, improving the sound quality immensely over what is already available out there. This, I say is a tough task given some of the available matrices(+5 spelling, Ha.) out there.

So, while you guys are all broke and bitchin, I think I'll take my five dollars down to the store and get a Moon Pie and a Root Beer. (And listen to a nice matrix from 76 on the way.)

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Moon Pie and root beer? Breakfast of champions for the true stoner.

Oh, and you've opened yourself up for a shitstorm of abuse for your matrix reference. Learn from my example. They are a viscious lot.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-06-22 20:35:34

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Just because I like things that are Viscous, doesn't mean that I am Vicious. ;-)

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Poster: spring mountain high Date: Jun 23, 2009 5:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

7thed on the packaging...make sure your fingas are nice and clean, because you are going to have to grab the damn disc to pull it out of that tight sleeve...they could use the recycled granola board and still make a package that doesn't suck

and call me a heretic, but i've always found the 6/16/74 performance to be sloppy and somewhat lethargic, especially the cuts they chose for release...makes me wonder if anyone actually listens to these things before they release them...i mostly purchased this for the 6/18/74 excerpt...if i were running things i would have released the complete performance of that show...blows 6/16 out of the water, imho

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jun 23, 2009 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

"i've always found the 6/16/74 performance to be sloppy and somewhat lethargic"

I agree. But the show does look good on paper... kind of like most of the 80's and 90's

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Poster: spring mountain high Date: Jun 23, 2009 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

agreed...and on the flip side, you could have a mundane setlist, but they play the hell out of it

the proof is in the listenin'

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 23, 2009 6:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I agree that the packaging is total trash. I also agree that it would be nice to see the Download Series come back.

But otherwise, I pretty much side with those who say that the meat of each show is here and that this makes for a stronger release that either show on its own (or some pricey 5-6 disc set of both shows).

It seems we are reaching a stalemate of sorts. I've read a lot of comments recently where people say things like "I'm not buying any more of these chopped up compilations". Fair enough- but based on other postings I’ve come to think there are probably just as many like me who are done with buying whole shows (with rare exceptions) because we simply don't want any more discs full of "El Paso", "BIODTL" and other minor songs that fill out a show.

Looks like the job of choosing what to release is only going to get harder as the already finicky customer base fractures further- now, in addition to those who will only by shows from certain years, there's the “highlights vs. whole show” issue as well. Maybe in the future they will look at some way to combine the Road Trips and Download Series to placate both sides.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 22, 2009 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

How much better is the sound quality? I mean there are some mixing issues that exist that can't be gotten rid of. What about any of the hiss etc..? How better is it?

Personally I saw what they included and 90 something percent of what they included on here pretty much is what makes these shows great imo.

And dang - I've always thought that Rhino did a great job with stuff. I think the problem here is nobody is ever going to be happy in Grateful Dead land. You know damn well that if they only release 60's stuff people would be complaining about that too. What if they release stuff from years we both agree aren't their best ( 80's )and they sell more? From a business standpoint then they should stick to that instead of releasing the great shows? It doesn't bother me that they put the true meat of these two shows on one release. Most of us that care have the rest already don't we?

I do agree that cardboard packaging sucks.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Jun 22, 2009 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I don't think the overriding complaint is about this release being a '74 show so much as it being a mix of two shows that warrant full-show releases. I love '74 with an irrational zeal, and won't buy this release because I have really nice copies of both shows (6/18 circulates in more or less pristine form), and there are some jazz releases I'd rather spend the cash on at the moment. Had they offered a real sonic upgrade of either show, complete, I would have pre-ordered it without looking at the price, like I did with the Winterland and Fillmore box sets. Clearly, they have a business model here, and clearly some of us are not the target demographic. No biggie in my opinion; I'll still buy any release that looks good to me, and feel no obligation to buy everything they put out just because I like this band. But, I share Cliff's critique that Dead shows have a certain flow, the great ones anyway, and that a release such as this doesn't convey that.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 23, 2009 12:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Amen

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 22, 2009 4:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I know what the complaint is. I'm just saying the meat is all here. IF it is a significant upgarde soundquality wise I wouldn't be that bent out of shape about missing an Around and Around.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Jun 22, 2009 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Fair enough, and the big jams are indeed still there. Sounds like the 6/16 stuff is an upgrade, and the 6/18 material will probably be a bit crisper and richer, since that's what they do.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Can't respond to much of this since i have not heard the new release yet. However I mentioned last week that I don't understand why they can't release the whole show digitally and sell the highlight CDs if they think that people really want them. One can only assume that the profit margin on the downloads is less than that of selling discs because they don't even sell the Road Trips releases digitally. Actually Rhino has not sold any of their releases digitally. It seems like such an antiquated approach.

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Poster: waynecs Date: Jun 23, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Mine arrived on Saturday and I love it!!!!Keep 'em comin'.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

well, you knew beforehand what you were buying, cardboard, song selections, everything you complained about AND even got in a dig at the dog-shit mid-80's shows.

Now relax, lite up a fattie and pour a glass of finewine. Feel better? Oh, check the edges of the CD's for glue..mmm..better pour another glass....life is good, aye?



This post was modified by rastamon on 2009-06-22 20:02:58

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 22, 2009 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I have to agree with you on the cardboard...yuck. As I said previously, I cut and reformat to suite my tastes using them as "art" (?) to go with the rest of my collection.

I also deeply lament the passing of the DL series as that was something I really got into when I first got into this whole DL/digital/new age world with you all a few yrs ago.

But, at least for the couple of RTs I picked up, summer 71 and winter 68, I was very happy with the overall quality. Of course, I don't have the selection of sources and such to compare them to, but feel they were a distinct improvement over my couple of sources for those particular shows...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 22, 2009 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

cardboard, shmardboard.

here's what i choose to complain about: the liner notes--which i actually read and look fwd to...--were the predictably lame ruminations you've heard 1,000 times on the wall of sound...how big it was, how much it cost, how many hours it took to set up, break down, etc....WE KNOW. IT WAS BIG. WE GET IT.

I wish they'd take more time to talk about the music itself...why are these two performances so good? why did we highlight certain sections, etc?

the sound sounded good to me. the set lists they chose are fine with me. could they have done more? sure. But the 3 discs of music and quality of sound is pretty good for 20 bucks. Just get better liner notes for the next one, please!

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Poster: BVD Date: Jun 22, 2009 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Have nice copies of both shows warts and all they are still smokin' complete shows. After buying road trips II--2/14/68 plus a bonus disc I will never plunk down any more $ for these shows primarily for the poor packaging. I needed scissors to open it up because it was so small I would have ruined the discs trying to pull them out. They are now safely tucked away in a nice CD holder protected from Rhinoboard. And hacking up those two beautiful shows from 74 is just plain wrong.

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Poster: Miss Divine Date: Jun 22, 2009 11:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I find it totally amazing that Rhino don't offer any downloads of their GD product.
Are they actually in the same century as us?
It's bad enough having to wait 6 weeks for their snail mail service to cross the Atlantic but when most labels now have instantly downloadable stuff available for sale from their major artists, Rhino are seriously lagging behind here and are damaging their sales and reputation.

I fail to understand how they can pass up on a major selling tool like this....and how hard can it be to offer a full show for download?

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 23, 2009 12:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

I have been delaying checking what dead.net has for downloading or not since I wanted to hold off any frustration.

but in just checking, it is just like miss divine says: totally AMAZING (and not in a good sort of way). I am at a loss even trying to understand the logic of not having downloads. I just checked the date and it doesn't appear that I went back in time or anything... It's just beyond me...

I guess they won't be getting my money anytime soon like they did when I went through dick's picks and the download series one-by-one. cha-ching, cha-ching... Money saved for neil's blu-ray and some new jazz box sets!!!

At least the download series is still available for download, along with dick's picks...

Funny, the recent dead tour is available in downloads, so they must still know how to do it...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 22, 2009 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Wait a minute, GC, are you really serious? What could any douche bag working with them say that WE couldn't say right here?

Seriously...OK, we bow to Dick and we bow to Blair, and even Bear, but to be honest, I have heard all those folks have to say...

Now, a nice historical piece might be well rec'd.

But, to be honest, I'd trade a bunch of jibber jabber for a good package any day of the week.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 23, 2009 3:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Actually, WT, that's kind of my point. I realize I didn;t express it quite as I should have.

What i'd prefer to see, rather than another essay from David Lemieux on the size and cost of the WallofSound--something every Deadhead knows like the alphabet song--is to have them go the extra mile and bring in a rock critic who knows how to write (Blair Jackson is OK but ubiquitous), or even a guest musician (ever read what Elvis Costello has to say about the Dead? It's fantastic), OR--and here's a radical idea...lobby real Deadheads themselves, perhaps folks who actually went to these shows way back when, to offer their own thoughts, just as we do here on the archive.

My point is, I come here primarily to talk about the music...and every time I think I've heard it all, someone usually (not always) steps up and adds a great point about some show or song version that gets me interested all over again.

I noticed that the early Dicks Picks shows had some commentary on the show you just shelled out $20 for, then..they stopped. Just pics and info on length of song, etc. That's to me, just lazy, and if they want folks to keep ponying up, for these RoadTrips, they need to do more. And getting beyond tired old stories about the WOS would be a good start.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2009 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Wheww...glad my over the top response wasn't offensive. I now realize what you meant but initially wasn't sure.

Funny, I always look for the text in these things, and sometimes am really happy (like Bear's thing on the techno stuff they had to do with TFTV was really interesting...hmmm, that was Bear, right? Anyhow...).

But, many times it really isn't anything new, as we note, and you read it once and are done.

As we note a great packaging job, however, is forever.

I just don't get the cardboard scratchiness thing and disks...do they plan for them to go bad after taking them in and out ten times or some such? Would they really do that to us?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 23, 2009 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

my guess is the cardboard is their "friendly to the earth" less plastics response...but as noted by many makes for a self-defeating scratch problem that makes you have to throw the discs into a landfill where they sit forever anyway.

There's plenty to complain about with these releases, don't get me wrong. I just happen to be a sucker for liner notes in general, and with a little effort they could make these special. There are actually plenty of voices HERE that I would love to hear pontificate in an official release on WHY this or that show deserves its own special spotlight. (Wouldn't you, the esteemed Mr. Tell, welcome the chance to essay on the value of your favorite '68 show? Or hear SDH discuss a stellar '81 release--where are THOSE, btw?)

I'm also just not a "all or nothing" show guy. I rarely listen to an entire show all the way thru (especially the marathon '73 - '74 behemoths with their 45-minute Darkstars) so I don't really get bothered by the chopping up of shows as long as they include the best stuff and the sound is impeccable.

I was listening to the WRS>Jam>OtherOne>It'sASin>StellaBlue from this RT release and damn if I can find a single thing to bitch about there. It's about as good as it gets for '74.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2009 8:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino/GDP Suck!

Ha--funny, and you're right: the green approach, which I laud, could backfire in this case!

And yeah, I am a sucker too, though I over-stated it above cause I am really pissed about the packaging...can't we have both good packing and notes? C'mon!

Likewise, I really don't care about the whole complete show biz, though I see the point at some level.

Until SCB told me about them, I didn't even realize that two of my fav shows, 4-5-69 and 6-7-70 have a couple of the worst songs on them, ever! I just never listen to the entire thing...